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Log-out button, replace with shutdown button for the sake of the red color an...
Status:
RESOLVED: WONTFIX
Severity:
enhancement
Product:
Xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin
Component:
General

Comments

Description D33rDanc3 2016-04-22 11:48:04 CEST
Created attachment 6655 
How red button looks compared to log out to indicate shutdown related action

Main reason:

The color of the button. http://i.imgur.com/fwnplvn.png

To me it seems that most of the systems, DEs, windows,..  use red color to denote shutdown action.
Xfce as well.
But by choosing the log-out button to be shown in the whiskers menu, instead of the shut-down button, we bring various neutral colors in to the mix and also strange log out symbols.

So we lose this common application of a color to hint visually the type of action the button performs. And also we often lose the visual icon representing shutdown, the classic 1 inside zero, and we get whatever the icon theme creator liked for log out action(a person going out of door, an arrow pointing at door, strange E shape,...)

The button itself does not serve as actual-log out anyway, but shows a menu with [log out, restart, shutdown]. So it could very easily be the classical red shutdown button, showing the very same menu without impacting the expected behavior of existing userbase.

We should ask, how easy would a random person know immediately where to shutdown compared to current option?

http://i.imgur.com/CEszgSS.png

And also how many people do we imagine use multiple accounts, switching between them as compared to doing daily actions consisting of shutdown/restarts? Why going for log-out in the first place?

Thanks for reading.
Comment 1 Graeme Gott editbugs 2016-04-26 11:10:16 CEST
I'm sorry, but I completely disagree.

I am not willing to use the shut down icon for something that doesn't just shut down the computer. This action opens the log out dialog with far more options. I use the icon and text that I do because that is what the Xfce action buttons use for this same action.

As an aside, I know for a fact that KDE *doesn't* use the shut down icon for this (it uses the log out icon, just like I do, but with the text "Leave"). I would expect other desktop environments to do the same. They all agree that the shut down action should be a red power symbol, and so do I. But this isn't the shut down action.

I, for one, have multiple accounts on my computer and log out just as often as shut down or restart. I know I'm not the only one.
Comment 2 D33rDanc3 2016-04-26 19:28:54 CEST
@Graeme Gott 

>I am not willing to use the shut down icon for something that doesn't just shut down the computer.
But you are willing to use logout icon for something that does not just logoff?
I think this line of argumentation is flawed.
If its bad for shut down, it was bad for log off too.

But since we have just single button with the purpose of exiting xfce one way or the other, we have to choose icon for that action that best convey that purpose

Shutdown icon is IMO far better choice than log off because of its great consistency in looks across various icon themes.
It is also notoriously present across various operating systems and DEs. People look for it.
And despite you not being the only one that uses logoff just as often as shutdown/restart..  the truth is you are minority and default should benefit the majority IMO.

as for KDE, here is pic from opensuse leap and its default startmenu, the most prominent is the shutdown button, but they offer logout, restart as well.
http://i.imgur.com/kcIW6PU.png

Maybe Xfce should go the way of windows 10 / gnome shell
Action concerning shutdown and restart have single shutdown themed icon in startmenu/panel
while logoff, switch-user is offered when user clicks the username of currently logged in user

But thats maybe unnecessary work and I am not here to argue for that, just for the icon change.
Comment 3 Graeme Gott editbugs 2016-04-26 21:50:03 CEST
(In reply to D33rDanc3 from comment #2)
> @Graeme Gott 
> 
> >I am not willing to use the shut down icon for something that doesn't just shut down the computer.
> But you are willing to use logout icon for something that does not just
> logoff?
> I think this line of argumentation is flawed.
> If its bad for shut down, it was bad for log off too.

My argument stands because every option in the dialog logs you off. Only ONE of them then completely shuts down the computer. They all log you off, you just choose what happens next: shut down, restart, nothing, etc.

> But since we have just single button with the purpose of exiting xfce one
> way or the other, we have to choose icon for that action that best convey
> that purpose

And the icon that best conveys that purpose is log off, because that is what exiting Xfce means. Shut down makes NO sense if you are just logging off.

> Shutdown icon is IMO far better choice than log off because of its great
> consistency in looks across various icon themes.
> It is also notoriously present across various operating systems and DEs.
> People look for it.
> And despite you not being the only one that uses logoff just as often as
> shutdown/restart..  the truth is you are minority and default should benefit
> the majority IMO.

NO. So what if I am in the minority? Linux is all about choice, and I will NEVER change things just to "benefit the majority". And, to be honest, you have provided no proof of any benefit anyway--no usability studies, not even a user survey. Speculation is just bikeshedding. No users have come to me before saying that they couldn't figure out how to shut down their computer.

> as for KDE, here is pic from opensuse leap and its default startmenu, the
> most prominent is the shutdown button, but they offer logout, restart as
> well.
> http://i.imgur.com/kcIW6PU.png

KDE has more than one menu, and the one in your screenshot still doesn't support your argument. The icon in that menu *only* shuts down your computer. It doesn't offer you options to restart or change users or anything else. The "Application Launcher" menu has a tab for log off options and that *does* use the "log off" icon because it makes the most sense.

> Maybe Xfce should go the way of windows 10 / gnome shell
> Action concerning shutdown and restart have single shutdown themed icon in
> startmenu/panel
> while logoff, switch-user is offered when user clicks the username of
> currently logged in user
> 
> But thats maybe unnecessary work and I am not here to argue for that, just
> for the icon change.

There already exists the action buttons that do exactly what you want. Just add the action buttons to your panel and choose what pops out from your user name, or switch it to be a series of buttons. However, I will not subsume that applet into Whisker Menu.
Comment 4 D33rDanc3 2016-04-26 23:57:35 CEST
>I will NEVER change things just to "benefit the majority"

well, thanks for reading
Comment 5 Graeme Gott editbugs 2016-04-27 01:49:52 CEST
(In reply to D33rDanc3 from comment #4)
> >I will NEVER change things just to "benefit the majority"
> 
> well, thanks for reading

I feel very strongly on that subject, but I did not mean to cause offense. I did appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Bug #12549

Reported by:
D33rDanc3
Reported on: 2016-04-22
Last modified on: 2016-04-27

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Assignee:
Graeme Gott
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