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Add option to have the right click menu behave like in xfce 4.43
Status:
RESOLVED: WONTFIX
Product:
Xfdesktop
Component:
General

Comments

Description mykey 2009-03-07 11:48:58 CET
I am following a recommendation in the IRC channel.

Since one of my favorite features - having the application menu whenever I right click an empty space on my desktop in xfce - was dropped in 4.6, I would like to request an option to have this behaviour again. 

Meaning the right click menu should always be like the one you get clicking the 'xfce menu' button in the panel or like the one you get when you disable icons on the desktop.
Comment 1 Brian J. Tarricone (not reading bugmail) 2009-03-07 20:51:33 CET
No.
Comment 2 Brian J. Tarricone (not reading bugmail) 2009-03-16 13:42:00 CET
*** Bug 5108 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 3 Mads 2009-03-16 15:16:24 CET
It should be optional. The new xfdesktop --menu is very nice, but many prefers and are used to the old behaviour. If running panelless, the new menu is a major nuisance.
Comment 4 Forest 2009-05-16 08:23:51 CEST
Adding my voice to the chorus...

I've been using file icons and top-level launchers in the desktop menu for years, and loving it.  Upgrading to Xfce 4.6 has robbed me of this combination of features.  I (and surely a fair number of others) would really appreciate its return.

Why the flat "no"?  Is there some technical difficulty involved?  Surely the menu hierarchy could be swapped in file/launcher icon mode, such that the application icons live at the top level and the newer Thunar-like commands live in a submenu?
Comment 5 Brian J. Tarricone (not reading bugmail) 2009-05-16 18:23:07 CEST
*** Bug 5364 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 6 Forest 2009-05-16 18:44:28 CEST
Hmm... duplicates being added but no explanation for the WONTFIX.

Hey Brian, would you be more willing to share your thoughts if I brought over some beer?
Comment 7 Brian J. Tarricone (not reading bugmail) 2009-05-16 20:01:19 CEST
(In reply to comment #6)
> Hmm... duplicates being added but no explanation for the WONTFIX.
> 
> Hey Brian, would you be more willing to share your thoughts if I brought over
> some beer?

Heh, tempting... but I probably owe an explanation here anyway, even if I've discussed it elsewhere and didn't really feel like re-hashing it.

It's pretty simple, really.  It's a change.  It's new.  It's unfamiliar.  Some people liked the old way, some people like the new way.  You'll get used to it.  Or you won't, and you'll find something else.  That's fine too.

Basically, I can't win.  In Xfce 4.4, people complained "I can't figure out how to create new launchers" (etc.) when they right-clicked on the desktop, because only the apps menu would pop up when you right-click on an empty spot on the desktop.  I'd always say "yeah, this sucks and isn't very usable for an icon view, but I didn't have time to fix it for 4.4."

So, I change it, and now a different set of people complain.

So what are the options?

1.  Leave it how it was in 4.4.  Get the same complaints, and have an icon view that behaves unlike any other icon view in the known universe.

2a.  Do what I did.  It's at least consistent and makes complete 100% sense if you just think of it as an icon view that shows files (like you'd see in a file manager).

2b.  Make the apps menu the topmost menu item in the context menu instead of the bottom.

3a.  Do the reverse of what I did: make the apps menu the toplevel menu when you right-click, and have the desktop context menu as a submenu of that menu.

3b.  Make the context menu the topmost menu item in the apps menu instead of the bottom.

I picked 2a, obviously.

I think #1 is out on all counts.  I *hated* how that looked, and it was non-intuitive that you had to click on an *existing* icon to get a proper context menu, which then -- even less usable -- had a mix of menu items that apply to the icon and to the desktop as a whole.  We're certainly not going back to that.

So that leaves four options, or really two options each with a variant.  Should it be configurable?  Maybe.  The current architecture makes that very difficult, however, and I'm not convinced an option like that is a good idea.  It's a pretty large behavior change between the two options, and I dislike the idea that someone used to Xfce could sit down at someone else's computer and find that it behaves completely differently because of a single option.

But, then again, these types of options are certainly precedented... just look at any window manager's settings panel.  Window raising/focus behavior differences can be pretty jarring, too.

So, I dunno.  I completely reworked how the menu gets populated for 4.6.  Adding an option wouldn't be terribly complex, but it would probably involve rethinking that yet again.  I'm not really interested in doing that, honestly.

The thing is... I don't think I understand why it's so "bad" now.  If you're using a mouse to access menus, by definition you aren't looking for speed, so that's not an issue (if you were *really* concerned with speed of access, you'd assign a keyboard shortcut to what you actually want to run from the menu).

(On a semi-related note, the one thing I'm certainly not happy with is that running 'xfdesktop --menu' pops up the context menu rather than the apps menu.  That's an unintended side-effect, but fixing it would, again, require a rethink and rework of how menu population works.)
Comment 8 Brian J. Tarricone (not reading bugmail) 2009-05-28 18:32:34 CEST
*** Bug 5404 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 9 Forest 2009-10-23 02:20:57 CEST
(In reply to comment #7)
> The thing is... I don't think I understand why it's so "bad" now.  If you're
> using a mouse to access menus, by definition you aren't looking for speed, so
> that's not an issue

There are two things that generally make a mouse slower than the keyboard: having to lift your hand from the keyboard to reach the mouse, and aiming the mouse pointer at a button / menu item that invokes your action.  The latter is relevant here.  With the old behavior, the applications menu always appeared right under the mouse pointer, so aiming required only the shortest and most predictable of movements.  It was extremely easy and quick.  With the new behavior, we have to carefully bring the pointer downward until it reaches the Applications menu item (without overshooting!), click or wait, carefully move the pointer right until it reaches the submenu (again without overshooting!), and only then can we make the final movement that selects the desired application.  This is much slower because it requires more motions and more care to complete.  The difference is especially noticeable to those of us whose most used applications live at the top of the Applications menu.  

The old behavior is also nice for people who are used to other X window managers, where an applications menu appears when clicking the background.

I can understand why XFCE users are divided on this issue, as reported in the 4.8 roadmap page.  I hope it's not long before both camps can have their beloved desktop menu behave the way they like.
http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.8/roadmap/xfdesktop#menu_architecture
Comment 10 Lionel Le Folgoc 2012-02-20 00:05:00 CET
*** Bug 5891 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Bug #5054

Reported by:
mykey
Reported on: 2009-03-07
Last modified on: 2012-02-20
Duplicates (4):
  • 5108 The new top-level menu in xfdesktop right click menu cannot be disabled
  • 5364 desktop menu hides applications in a submenu when desktop file/launcher icons are enabled
  • 5404 XFCE 4.4 right click menu with desktop icons in 4.6.x
  • 5891 Users should be able to choose the right-click menu

People

Assignee:
Brian J. Tarricone (not reading bugmail)
CC List:
5 users

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